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BARBARA D. ~ familiar with murders of kids by clerics, kids getting AIDS from clerics, ritual abuse, etc.

There's the big, famous case, which was Gerald Robinson in Toledo, Ohio. He murdered a nun. That was murder by an adult, of an adult. But, they thought he was sexually abusing her. We know he was abusing young girls. Or, she caught him in something. Why he murdered her, has never been entirely clear. That was in the newspaper, it was on Court TV. There's a book about it.

There's a survivor up in Springfield Massachusetts ...this has been made public, so I can talk about it. The family had seven children, five boys and two little girls. The priest was molesting, I believe, 4 or 5 of the boys. The youngest boy said he was gonna tell on the priest. So, the priest murdered him, beat him with a rock, and drowned him.

That tore the family apart because the older boys all felt that if they had told what the priest was doing to them, than Danny would've been saved. That's the Croteau family.

The priest wasn't convicted.

The police admitted there are no other suspects, and all evidence leads to a priest, named Lavigne ...but, they've never had enough evidence, they felt, to convict him.

The family believes Lavigne murdered their son. At the Snap website, google Danny Croteau, and the stories come up. (Editor: or, google at bishopaccountability.org)

Then, there's the Bonneau family. That was a case where there were five boys. The mother died. At that point in time, the State took the younger three boys away from the father, saying he couldn't take care of them. The father wanted the kids ...but, the State stepped in. The three little boys were put into an orphanage ...Saint Colman's.

The older two boys were evidently too old for that particular orphanage, and moved to the next older orphanage ... I don't know the name of that one. But, they were moved away from the littlest boy, Gilbert.

Gilbert was inconsolable. He cried, he caused trouble, he threw fits, he wanted to be with his brothers. He was scared and frightened. The nuns didn't like the fact that he cried and caused trouble, and so ...they spanked him, hit him, whatever.

One day, Gilbert apparently threw a big fit and a nun beat him. Then, they brought him into the hospital, he was beaten so badly. And, another nun, when he wouldn't stop crying ... he kept crying and she kept threatening him, held a pillow over his face and smothered him.

Now, the little boy in the next bed saw it happened. But, he was too terrified to tell. The nuns told him that the same thing would happen to him if he told. They made him serve the funeral mass. He was terrified. He kept silent for years and years.

The nuns told the family that Gilbert died of meningitis.

The nuns weren't convicted or punished.

Investigators, to this day, don't know which nun did it. Investigators feel the people at St. Coleman's know who did it ...and won't tell. There's a whole website on Gilbert. A detective's working the case. He's turned up other kids who've talked about abuse and beatings that went on there. There's quite a number of kids who told about that. But, none of the kids remember the nun that killed him. The little boy in the nearby bed remembered what the nun looked like, but has no name to go with the case.

At the Snap website, google Gilbert Bonneau. [Editor's note: or google at bishopaccountability.org.] His brothers' names are there, the witness's name is there, and the detective's name is there.

There is a subgroup. There are the kids that have died of AIDS ... and, they got it from the perp.

There's more than one case. I can think of three. None of those families are public, in any way. They're very upset. One young man was mentally challenged.

Another young man got AIDS from sexual abuse by his priest, and he died. He had been abused as a young teenager.

And the third one, was a young teenager who had been abused and died of AIDS.

The families have been very reluctant to talk about it. They feel, especially the family of the young man who was mentally disabled, totally feel that he'd been murdered by AIDS he got from the priest that sexually abused him. The other families have not gone so far as to use the word, ‘murder'. Or, are willing to say it was ‘murder'.

But, if the sex wasn't consensual, it would seem to me it's murder. It's a way of killing them. I don't know what the law says. But, to me, they've killed these children. I don't know where those cases are, legally. But, if they gave these kids AIDS, and the kids died from it ...it seems to me, that's murder.

None of the families are pursuing it with attorneys. One family is on the border of doing it. Whether or not they've actually done anything, I don't know. Often, what happens with one of these cases is the family is divided about what to do. Half the family wants to do this, and half of the family wants to do that. And, since the victims themselves are dead, it's just one more way of tearing the families apart. Especially, when the mother wants to go one way, and the father wants to go another.

In the case I'm thinking of, that I know really well, the mother wanted to pursue it, and the father didn't want to pursue the Church. The mother wanted to pursue it to protect other children, and she was very angry about what they had done to ‘her baby', as she would say. The mother was very angry. The father felt, ‘the child is dead'. He wanted to let it rest.

The Church response to that child who died by AIDS, was they denied the priest did it. We know of other survivors the same priest sexually abused.

I don't know if the priest was even tested for AIDS, or is now forced to be tested?

I don't know legally where it went, how far they got. The parents were going to try to pursue it, and I don't know, at this point, how far they've gone. To be fair to the Church, I'm not sure the family has told them that their son died of AIDS from this priest, this perp.

They've gone to the Church about the fact that this priest molested two of their sons. One has since died of AIDS. I'm not sure they told the Church that their son got the AIDS from the priest. I know, they've told me, that's where he got it. But, because of the way the father acts, I'm not sure the Church knows how the kid got AIDS.

Then, there's the ritual group ... people who were ritually abused.

It's happened more than once. There's a group of survivors that have been abused ritually ...sometimes, Satanically ... sometimes, for lack of a better term, ‘Catholic ritual abuse'. There's a group of survivors I've heard from, from across the country, and up into Canada. It goes on and on.

Satanic abuse is pretty well documented. It's called, ‘Black Mass'. It usually involves a priest and a number of lay people. Often, one of the lay people is related to the child who is considered ‘the virgin' and/or ‘the innocent victim'. Sometimes it involves certain parts of an animal. Some victims swear it involves sacrifice of a human being ... we've never been able to document that. But, Satanic rituals are fairly well documented.

‘Catholic ritual abuse' is based on the Catholic mass, and tend to revolve around Catholic liturgy. It is often done in the context of a mass, but not a ‘Black Satanic Mass', but rather, a ‘Catholic Mass' ... it's often done in Latin, based on the season of the year ...for example, crucifixion could be involved, or confession. It's all done based on Catholic ritual.

Often, the child is dressed as a priest, and the other priests sexually abuse the child.

Often there's more than one priest involved in the Catholic ritual abuses.

In the Satanic rituals, it's usually only one priest, and a number of lay people.

I'm referring to Satanic ritual abuse was done by Catholic priests.

It's usually only one priest in a Satanic ritual, with a number of lay people. The Catholic ritual abuse tend to only involve priests ... there's no lay people involved, except for the children, who are the victims.

The Catholic ritual abuse participated in by several priests usually involves rape and sodomy, and torture.

Dozens of victims have spoken out.

The Robinson case involved Catholic ritual abuse and murder. The victim was stabbed in a specific pattern, she was covered by altar cloth, it was done on an altar. So, that's a ritual.

[AA] When survivors of ritual abuse come forward, how can they? ...how can they still be alive, having endured that?

[BD] A lot of them were young kids, and I think, they disassociated. The way it's been explained to me, is disassociation ... the child would become two children. There would be the child that was abused, and the child who comes down and eats cornflakes and goes to school ...and, the two children don't really know each other.

That, when the abuse is happening, many of the survivors describe leaving their body, ‘I'd go up into the corner of the room and hide'. Or, ‘I'd go somewhere else.' Because, it was so horrible, that was the only way to deal with it ...was just, to leave.

[AA] If there were more than one priest involved, that is very sick. I mean, it's sick to start with, but to have more than one involved, that's really tests the limits of humanity, pretty severely, at that point. But, you find that's been commonly reported by victims?

[BD] It's not ‘common', don't get me wrong. But, I've heard it enough times. I talked to a woman the other day from up in Canada. She kept telling me, "I know it involved a well. I know it involved a well." She kept saying, ‘well'. I'd never heard that before. I'm not doubting her, but I can't help her figure it out. Finally, as she talked to me for a while, I'm realizing she used certain words, and the word she was trying to tell me, was, ‘cincture' -- not ‘cistern'. The ‘cincture' is the belt a priest wears around his waist, when he says mass. It's a symbol of celibacy. I've heard this over a number of times, that the priests would tie the kids up with the cinctures.

It took me a while to figure out she had the wrong word.

Survivors that have been ritually abused, it pushes the limit of what people can believe ...so, the survivors have kept very quiet, knowing that it seems too horrific to be believed ...so, they don't tell.

About priests involved in the Satanic rituals ... were the lay people involved parishioners? ...or just other lay people?

It's been both. I've heard survivors describe the lay people as fellow parishioners, and others have told me they have no idea who the lay people were. Others said to me, ‘It was father so-&-so, and Dr. so-&-so, and Mr. so-&-so, or Mrs. so-&-so'. They knew who some of the lay people were. Which leads me to believe it was within their circle of friends.

Catholic ritual abuse isn't up in the mountains somewhere, or out in the sticks. It's everywhere, in rural and urban areas.